suche ein tcl :)

rEElOOp · Post by **rEElOOp** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:15 am

hab gestern in nem Channel n Bot gesehen, der die Bundesliga Geschehnisse gepostet hat. Also ne Liveübertragung mit Zwischenständen und allen möglichen Zusatzinfos. Kennt jemand sowas? Weiß jemand wo man sowas herbekommt???

GodOfSuicide · Post by **GodOfSuicide** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:07 am

reeloop : this is an english forum, but i'll translate it for the others in here...

rEElOOp wrote:
i've seen a bot that posts Soccer Leagues ("German Bundesliga") results and so on and also scores and infos about currently running matches. Does somebody in here know such a thing ? Does somebody know where to get this? (i stripped the last 2 ?, hope you dont mind...)

strikelight · Post by **strikelight** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:30 pm

GodOfSuicide wrote:reeloop : this is an english forum, but i'll translate it for the others in here...

rEElOOp wrote:
i've seen a bot that posts Soccer Leagues ("German Bundesliga") results and so on and also scores and infos about currently running matches. Does somebody in here know such a thing ? Does somebody know where to get this? (i stripped the last 2 ?, hope you dont mind...)

http://eggnet.warpzone.org/

has a soccer (european football) script (bytecoded), as such you will need to install their main core library as well.

rEElOOp · Post by **rEElOOp** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:58 am

big thx

(auch für die übersetzung) hehe

GodOfSuicide · Post by **GodOfSuicide** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:13 am

strikelight wrote: http://eggnet.warpzone.org/

has a soccer (european football) script (bytecoded), as such you will need to install their main core library as well.

i hate those guys...if you want to release a script then put the whole script online, and no need for some stupid compile / encrypt / etc system...
i dont like to install scripts where i cant controll what they do...

strikelight · Post by **strikelight** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:29 pm

GodOfSuicide wrote:
strikelight wrote: http://eggnet.warpzone.org/

has a soccer (european football) script (bytecoded), as such you will need to install their main core library as well.
i hate those guys...if you want to release a script then put the whole script online, and no need for some stupid compile / encrypt / etc system...
i dont like to install scripts where i cant controll what they do...

I respect their decision for doing it that way..
There are way too many code jackers out there willing to modify or steal existing code, and then take credit for it. Most script authors would actually prefer that you don't go beyond their configuration settings. If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.

And If I had to guess, you probably run some version of windows, which, as I'm sure you already know, isn't open source yet you still use it.

egghead · Post by **egghead** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:14 pm

strikelight wrote:
GodOfSuicide wrote:
strikelight wrote: http://eggnet.warpzone.org/

has a soccer (european football) script (bytecoded), as such you will need to install their main core library as well.
i hate those guys...if you want to release a script then put the whole script online, and no need for some stupid compile / encrypt / etc system...
i dont like to install scripts where i cant controll what they do...
I respect their decision for doing it that way..
There are way too many code jackers out there willing to modify or steal existing code, and then take credit for it. Most script authors would actually prefer that you don't go beyond their configuration settings. If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.

And If I had to guess, you probably run some version of windows, which, as I'm sure you already know, isn't open source yet you still use it.

First you defend the idea of closed source (if those tcl's may be considered closed source) and then you bash GodOfSuicide for (maybe) running windows. Doesn't make sense.

My 2 Eurocents: coders can offer their code any way they prefer. But not offering the plain script doesn't help the idea of open source either.

My speculation based on the few lines of plain code provided: the code offered is so mediocre, the only way to hide it is by bytecoding it.

GodOfSuicide · Post by **GodOfSuicide** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:35 pm

strikelight wrote: If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.

if the source is not open it's hard to detect if there is any securety hole or lame function in it (like some wgets etc).
and if i want to change triggers, output, etc to addapt it to my needs but just use it for myself and dont alter the TCL's header too i dont see any reason why that should be wrong.

and since TCL is a scripting language if find the idea of compiled code some kinda pervert. i want the control over my bot, not the bot controling me and my shell.

strikelight · Post by **strikelight** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:39 pm

egghead wrote:
strikelight wrote:
GodOfSuicide wrote: i hate those guys...if you want to release a script then put the whole script online, and no need for some stupid compile / encrypt / etc system...
i dont like to install scripts where i cant controll what they do...
I respect their decision for doing it that way..
There are way too many code jackers out there willing to modify or steal existing code, and then take credit for it. Most script authors would actually prefer that you don't go beyond their configuration settings. If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.

And If I had to guess, you probably run some version of windows, which, as I'm sure you already know, isn't open source yet you still use it.
First you defend the idea of closed source (if those tcl's may be considered closed source) and then you bash GodOfSuicide for (maybe) running windows. Doesn't make sense.

My 2 Eurocents: coders can offer their code any way they prefer. But not offering the plain script doesn't help the idea of open source either.

My speculation based on the few lines of plain code provided: the code offered is so mediocre, the only way to hide it is by bytecoding it.

No, I was not bashing GodOfSuicide... Fact is everyone (99% of the population) runs some form or other of Windows, including myself. My point was, we use it blindly without needing to see the source.

As for supporting the idea of open source, you make it sound like everyone would want to support the idea of open source, but when you think about it, open source puts alot of programmers out of a job. It has it's benefits, but it also has it's downfalls, and as with anything, there will always be a need for people to decide which is more important to them.

strikelight · Post by **strikelight** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:44 pm

GodOfSuicide wrote:
strikelight wrote: If you would like a feature added/changed, you should always contact the original script author and make such a request, in my opinion.
if the source is not open it's hard to detect if there is any securety hole or lame function in it (like some wgets etc).
and if i want to change triggers, output, etc to addapt it to my needs but just use it for myself and dont alter the TCL's header too i dont see any reason why that should be wrong.

and since TCL is a scripting language if find the idea of compiled code some kinda pervert. i want the control over my bot, not the bot controling me and my shell.

If you don't trust the author then you shouldn't use it. Although, many people don't trust Bill Gates, but they still use Windows. If you want to change triggers/output/etc.. they can all be added to a configuration setting by the author, if you atleast make an attempt to ask them.

If you want control over your bot, then might I suggest you don't use scripts produced by other people. In fact, I for one, if you were to be using any scripts that I had released to the public, would prefer it if you didn't use them at all, if your intention is to just hack it to shreds just because you were too lazy to make a feature request. Create your own scripts from scratch.

egghead · Post by **egghead** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:56 pm

strikelight wrote: As for supporting the idea of open source, you make it sound like everyone would want to support the idea of open source, but when you think about it, open source puts alot of programmers out of a job. It has it's benefits, but it also has it's downfalls, and as with anything, there will always be a need for people to decide which is more important to them.

Agreed. Coders may offer their own code in any way they want.

Note that nowhere I made it sound like everyone wants to support the idea of open source. Please refrain from making such erroneous generalisations.

You may note that we are talking about the eggdrop community here. Remember? Not about Windows and Microsoft. Not about programmers having (or losing) a job coding eggdrop and related Tcl's.
I do hope eggdrop scripters will not follow the bytecoding. For various reasons it is very bad karma IMO.

Like you said, many script ideas are taken without giving proper credit to the original author. How can we check that some of those "stolen" snippets are not included in such a bytecoded script?

strikelight · Post by **strikelight** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:02 pm

egghead wrote: You may note that we are talking about the eggdrop community here. Remember? Not about Windows and Microsoft. Not about programmers having (or losing) a job coding eggdrop and related Tcl's.
I do hope eggdrop scripters will not follow the bytecoding. For various reasons it is very bad karma IMO.

Who knows if eggdrop had been released commercially to begin with, perhaps the developers would be getting paid for their product.

egghead wrote: Like you said, many script ideas are taken without giving proper credit to the original author. How can we check that some of those "stolen" snippets are not included in such a bytecoded script?

This is true, however even if you could tell if code was stolen, as with current open source scripts, what could you do about it? Absolutely nothing.. Atleast with obfuscation/encryption/bytecoding, protection for actual original intellectual property is made stronger.

egghead · Post by **egghead** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:13 pm

strikelight wrote: [snip] Atleast with obfuscation/encryption/bytecoding, protection for actual original intellectual property is made stronger.

"protection for actual original intellectual property"... is that what eggdrop, its coders-, users- and scripters community is about?

I thought it was about blood, sweat and tears. Some credit here and there together with fun and a beer/pizza now and then

strikelight · Post by **strikelight** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:21 pm

egghead wrote:I thought it was about blood, sweat and tears. Some credit here and there together with fun and a beer/pizza now and then

You have been disillusioned

There's also a bunch of bad eggs salted in with your recipe

GodOfSuicide · Post by **GodOfSuicide** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:13 pm

strikelight : face it, eggdrop is just fun-stuff....sometimes usefull but no unreplaceable feature that a normal TCL script / c-tool / whatever could replace

btw, do you think that you would be some kinda bankrobbed if somebody changes the output of your tcl's ? i think you actualy just wanted to block beginners from stealing your code but allowing users who allready worked with tcl to view the code and learn from it (just change one EVAL in your tcl's and you got the real code).

i only started with TCL because i didn't want to be Delphi-only (which i needed for my shool) and i had no time for a real language like C / C++.
i started with common TCL's and looked how they work.
the next step was editing the TCL's for my needs.
then i started with my own small TCL's for little jobs and now i work on bigger projects like my new RSS / RDF / XML Newsticker system.

Who steals code has no right to get credits for it, that sentence everybody would sign (except bill gates who stole from apple). But : who looks at code and learns from it should be able to gain experience from it.

And i dont think ANYBODY in here started without looking at 3rd party scripts for learning purposes, and i must say i learned really much from what i've seen in here.

egghelp/eggheads community

suche ein tcl :)

suche ein tcl :)

:P